Desi Dating And Matrimony

A veteran war horse of the dating game once gave me advice out of pity for my naiveté “Spend time just talking to them, go out for lunch, forget dinner do lunch or coffee..go dutch, disengage all the trappings of ‘dating’ while still dating.” Anyone would agree all of that makes good sense. In an ideal world, one would graduate from friendship to relationship to love and the transitions would be natural and seamless. That is theory and then there is practice.

I can speak only to the desi condition not having dated non-desis. We seem to have taken arranged matrimony into our own hands, added to it a western sensibility that is not part of its inherent nature and thrown “dating” into it for good measure. We will get the horoscopes checked out before embarking on anything serious but also expect to feel that natural vibe that tells us we have found “the one”. We do not want to get emotionally entangled with the prospect and would prefer to hide behind the shield of our match making parents yet we want to be in love before marrying. There are more contradictions that can be counted in our dating tending mating recipe.

With a formula like that, the enterprise is doomed even before it gets off the ground. It does not help that one of the two parties has a greater need and urgency for closure than the other. Many of us are guilty of introducing a “relationship” element into a nascent friendship and then strangulating it within a time-boxed denouement. The resulting stress is usually enough to sap all the vital energy that it takes to move things forward.

Most desi encounters begin with the parties agreeing at least in principle that they should start as friends and take things forward slowly and should it not work out disengage gracefully. Inevitably, somewhere along the way (and often very soon) one or other of the two will step up the pace and push to the next level even without having reached any level of comfort as “friends”.

For men that might mean implying and expecting a committed and exclusive status when in truth they may emotionally not be ready even for a “commit to commit” . The strategies include but are not limited to all-night phone calls, inundating her mailbox (physical and electronic) with notes and tokens of love, meeting several times within a short period of time creating an illusion of a stronger, longer relationship than it truly is.

Finally there is talk about marriage, in-laws, future plans of returning to India and god forbid the yet to be born children - essentially dream peddling without any realistic notion of a possible future together. Once you engage each other at levels that are beyond the scope of friendship its not possible to go back. You can only dye a fabric a shade darker than its original color and not lighter - you try to bleach and you may ruin its texture for good.

Women may act of out need for emotional closeness that the previous string of pseudo relationships did not bring. Then there is the dread biological clock factor which is mostly a state of mind and has little to do with actual biology. When the prospect feels right, she may not be able to curb her enthusiasm and end up sending alarming distress signals - he is the male with the right plumage but she zeros on him with more force than he is able to withstand. She may force an early read on the relationship to assess if it is worth pursuing. Time spent in pursuing a prospect is time wasted if the prospect does not turn into husband.

To invest time, energy and emotions on a man without any line of sight towards the goal of matrimony may be more than she is willing to do. Dating becomes a commitment snare that she is as desirous of laying out as the man is of escaping. At the end of several years in the dating scene she will either suffer from attention deficit disorder in relationships never allowing time for things to run their course or just cling to the boyfriend of two years from habit and sheer exhaustion.

Men have told me that women will offer to sleep with them just to jump start into relationship mode and hope that physical intimacy will enable them to extract a commitment of marriage. Then there are the women who at the end of the second in person meeting ask if the man is ready to name a date for the marriage and will make him feel like a degenerate pile of trash for not being able to do so. Presumably men neither seek the slut nor the sati but the happy medium in between that was personified to our generation by the girl in the VIP suitcase ad - the pretty girl next door who has everything a man needs in a wife blended in perfect proportion.

Men claim that women of a certain vintage have a dating playbook and it is often impossible to know the person she really is. They will display the exact mix of spontaneity, fun, wit, charm, loving and caring for a man to feel the warm and fuzzy they need to in a potential wife. Some men get suckered in while others wonder why the vibe feels so manufactured. The former get married and turn disappointed when the woman finally shows her true colors once safely ensconced in the state of matrimony.

The later keep shopping in the ever growing pool of prospects who can be found online - there is always better accomplished, better educated and better looking women out there and each encounter sets up expectations for a bigger, better deal around the corner. Shopping for a spouse can turn addictive. When at last they do stop and get hitched, men are left to wonder why the nymphomaniacs they were dating have zero interest in sex a year into marriage or why the woman who checked on their flu twenty times and brought in chicken soup from the other end of town does not have the time to cook a single dinner in a month.

Likewise women are disappointed in the men they date and marry for a wide variety of reasons. The man is no longer turned on by her confidence, her decision to go back to school for an MBA and her successful career when in fact those were the things that once attracted him to her. They can’t agree on the right time to start family less the right time to stop. Her parents are are a little less equal than his parents, all of her money is his money but some of his money is always out of bounds - it is funneled back home through an NRI account and a credit card with an astronomical credit limit. It is the least he can do to assuage his guilt about not being there in India to take care of his parents.

The theme of interfering in-laws is a common across most desi marriages that go kaput. Despite the couple having every reason to stay happily together they are not able to because of the parents being privy to too much in their marriage. This aspect hardly manifests itself in the dating period when the couple is challenging the traditional wisdom of arranged matrimony.

The western sensibility that enabled the marriage is not extended to daily functioning of the institution itself in as such there is nothing to tell a couple that came together via dating from one that was arranged to be married. One would think there would be distinct differences contributing to the success parameters of one or the other. Marriage is probably one of the most seriously challenged desi establishments today suffering from a sub optimal mashup of the occidental and oriental world views of getting into and surviving life long relationships.


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atrakasya's picture

HC

Being naive is kinda different from operating from the ol’ dil, isn’t it?
Don’t worry, I discovered the difference the hard way, too Smiling Yet, I maintain that the answer is not to become cynical and analyse relationships to bits and question motives all the time. Then, one is doomed.


atrakasya's picture

wrong wrong wrong

All this analysing is entirely wrong -
Dimaag SIRF kaam mey istemaal karo, and nowhere outside of it.

Jaha dil lagana hai waha dimaag lagaogey to problem nahi hoga to kya hoga??


Atra

The only time I followed your mantra the dude in question turned out to be married with six month old twins he had just forgotten to mention. I prefer using my dimaag to being hunted down by disgruntled wives Smiling


atrakasya's picture

A primer on dandiya

Hmmm…born with two left feet, hm? Sorry to say that you have no hope till you know that it is perfectly possible to dance with two left feet and even without feet - I have seen it happen.

Can-do can and cannot-do also can.

Allow me to help.
You can begin by thinking of Dandiya as a form of martial arts that eventually got morphed into a dance form.
Imagine that you are fighting the kung-fu style of dual short-staff on an ant hill, and in the middle of the fight, you suddenly begin to love your enemy and the only tool you have at hand to express your love is those short-staffs.

Try to avoid blows and try to land your blows on non-critical places.

Sometimes, a helmet can help, but don’t get too used to it - it is important to develop a thick skull, if the final destination is marriage.


Hello All !

Pardon my backward views in all things dating tending mating but it seems from the string of comments relating to puri sabzi, IW and LL that the two have an abiding interest in each other that transcends food. It also appears that the prevailing public opinion is favorable for the two to declare themselves an item officially. Talk about commitment by committee !

IW - reading your recent woes on finding a place to call home in Singapore and the desperate measures to remediate the situation, I’d say get hitched to the french connection without any further ado. It may be a while before VS sees the point of introducing IW-Secret line in mauve satin and white lace.

Pradz - +1 on the good old fashioned way. Works so much better when you expect to just live and let live and not expect to be in earth shattering love every day of your life.

Atra - what about the dandiya-challenged such as myself ? Please don’t recommend salsa as the alternative knowing I was born with two left feet. Are there no options for us ?

Maria - totally agree with your point about being in an abusive relationship. Thresholds and even operating definitions of abuse can vary widely. In the end it is upto the individual to decide to end it and be at peace with that decision

Chet - Motives become suspect as soon as you are in shopping mode considering several options, choosing to keep some in limbo while taking time to explore the offerings in the market. Back in the day boy met girl, fell in love (or whatever) and got married. In desh, parents fixed them up, they lived together and tried to fall in love and often did.


Pradzie's picture

>>>I was born with two left

>>>I was born with two left feet…

And i’ve got two right feet ! Think we can salsa now! What say woman?


Pradz

Sounds like a plan.We will be mutually feet compensated. Let me know when you’re in my neck of the woods.


chetiyaar's picture

sigh ...

men !!!


Pradzie's picture

I’m sorry Cheetos, i

I’m sorry Cheetos, i asked Crossings first. Take a number, man!


chetiyaar's picture

lagey

raho lagey raho !!!


chetiyaar's picture

Pardon

my ignorance … a lot of concepts are alien to me !! Like “shopping mode”, “explore offerings in market” It sounds like corporates on the prowl for a take over sick competitors ! Or it might also mean a kid viewing the christmas ready shopping malls !

So I might not understand the actual “scene” and or where you are coming from !

The mere presence of so many concepts boggles my mind who just went the “parents fixed them up, they lived together and tried to fall in love and did” way !

Though I will not be of any help in untangling this royal mess of a market place, it sure enlightens me a lot !!! And entertains me .. if I may add.

Its like those Eskimos rattling out all the 40 odd terms they have for snow and me gleefully trying to figure out the differences while trying not to drown in the flood of it !

Even the concept of “considering several options” while keeping some in limbo makes me go “Whaa.. “

But never mind !!! Try to pardon my ignorance !


Chet

This is one kind of ignorance that you should truly be grateful for Smiling I would have loved to be ignorant like you but fate had other plans for me..You don’t want to know where I’m coming from and most definitely don’t want to be in my shoes. I would not wish that on anyone.

It takes a while to for someone in the middle of this unholy mess to see the humor in the situation but its nice that others find it entertaining.

To your point about corporate types vs kids shopping for Christmas, I can assure you it is the later. Nothing describes the state of affairs better.


bilbobaggins's picture

heartcrossings

I agree it takes a while to see the humor in the situation one lands up in . But I feel that humor is the only thing that can keep one sane . I mean why not get some laughs out of it. One sure isnt getting anything else .


Bilbs

You’re right. I have to write up a funny one about my encounters with married men suffering selective amnesia about wives and children at home Smiling


chetiyaar's picture

hc

“the entertains” was in no way a attempt at offending you ! If it did I am sorry about that !

What I keep wondering is .. all these insights and analysis and understanding should ideally makes things easiser .. but it doesnt seem to work that way ! it looks like a gravity well !

Any way .. i think i should shuddup !!!!


chet

No offense taken at all Smiling True the analysis does not make anything easier. The more insights you have into the system the more tired you grow which is why ignornace was bliss.

When has infinite choice made it easy for shoppers to make up their mind ? You either buy more than you need and suffer buyer’s remorse or don’t go shopping at all.


atrakasya's picture

Damned title

I was having this post page open and two of my friends saw the title (desi dating and matrimony) and insisted that I was browsing some desi matrimony site, and would not listen to my protests to the contrary Sad

Why the hell did you have to give such a misleading title to this post, hah? Sad(


and Pradz--older version

er.. have you checked out the link on Bilbsie’s blog. Buddha Call. Figure out how older version of things eventually evolve.


atrakasya's picture

Pradz

@
“…older version is much better. Find Girl, Match raashis, Marry girl, have a family, happy everafter scene follows and somewhere in btwn, this thing called ‘love’ will figure…”

If that worked everyone would do it and those who did it would be happy with it, right? Besides, this thing called ‘love’ was not really something people looked for anyways. They looked for something more like “peaceful co-existence”. None of this love-shove senti business.

I tell ya, this concept of expecting love in a marriage might only a bloody corrupting western influence which raises expectations and creates unreal images of what a relationship should be. Maybe simple peaceful coexistence is what would make the world happy.

Also, I think committing to make lifelong puri-sabzi for the prospective bride would have much better chances of making the marriage work.


Pradzie's picture

Looks like the ghaatis have

Looks like the ghaatis have hijacked the blog to serve as base to seal IW’s future to the french connection. Poems, dating do’s, dandiya tips and what not? Looks like they’re getting there…

Crossings,
like maria sez there’s no sure fire way of finding that one person, and chets’s comment about analysing it to the point that it simply breaks the very idea of dating/ marriage. It sounds all so complicated, i guess the older version is much better. Find Girl, Match raashis, Marry girl, have a family, happy everafter scene follows and somewhere in btwn, this thing called ‘love’ will figure. So will compatibility issues, tastes and relatives. I don’t know. But it sounds better that way…


atrakasya's picture

asuph

Yes, I know. We are probably being naive and stupid - even I had admitted that in a previous remark.
But this character keeps baiting, acting like he is interested in doing something about his life.

You think maybe he is just using our good intentions for his entertainment? Maha-chaalu fellow - I wouldn’t put it beyond him.


atrakasya's picture

Tu nahi sudhrega

IW,
tu ekdum hopeless case hai! Tera kuch nahi ho sakta!


atra

i’m wondering if iw is hopeless, or if we are! i mean he’s done this so many times, and yet we keep on engaging with him, supporting, correcting him.

i think apunich yeda hai

-asuph


atrakasya's picture

IW

Dude,
If you are fine, and LL is fine, mereko kya problem hai, bhai? Even I will drop in to have some sabji-puri sometime.

And what makes you think I am not your well-wisher?
Mai laat marunga wo bhi pyaar se marunga - apna samajhkar - not to worry. “For your own good”, don’t you know?

And yes, you should take everything anyone says with generous doses of salt - thats my own policy, too.


atrakasya's picture

IW

Daro nahi - always plunge headlong into it - jo hoga dekha jayega.

Have you not already made the biggest committment a man can make to a woman (to make lifelong puri-sabji)?
After that, what do you have to lose?


going underground

I have finally found a phrase to describe the unique situation that i find myself in : “the hunter has become hunted” . I am going underground with immediate effect.I would surface only when these favourable winds stop blowing. Adios Amigos, yeh mein chalaa.

Daudaa Daudaa Bhaaga Bhaaga Saa..
Daudaa Duadaa Bhaaga Bhaaga Saa..


atrakasya's picture

wicked

well, you certainly seem to be training to handle all those wicked folks out there.
Interestingly, if you reverse the word “Wicked”, it becomes “dekc IW” (ie. dekh/see IW).
Ah, what more of a divine sign can one ask for? Smiling)

But if he is willing to make puris and sabzi to go along with it, I guess it should be acceptable, hm? What greater punishment can there be for a wicked man than to make puri-sabzi all his life?


atrakasya's picture

wow! - LL

Now thats some nifty negotiating! (a la “speak softly but carry a big stick”!
Have you joined some class on negotiation or any MBA or something? Smiling


wicked world

it’s a wicked world out there Atra, one needs to be careful when taking/making choices. what say you?


atrakasya's picture

CN - socrates

Thats a nice poem!
Since you were talking about socrates, I think it was he who said -
“My advice to you is to get married. If you find a good wife you’ll be happy; if not you’ll become a philosopher.”


Captain Nemo's picture

hmmm...

This write-up taught me one lesson : I should stop looking for a nymphomaniac to marry and look for someone who doesn’t show any interest in sex and hope that after a year she will turn out to be a nymphomaniac and stay like that for the rest of her life… Eye-wink
One has to be extremely foolish to “marry” a nymphomaniac when he can continue having a highly enjoyable relationship as long as it lasts Sticking out tongue


atrakasya's picture

now you are talking

Yeah, IW, now you are catching on to what da babes want!
A life-long supply of puris and chappatis would sound good to any hot-blooded girl! With that kind of a carrot, you will not only get a wife, but you will even get other people’s wives dumping their hubbies for ya.

BTW, are you planning to make those puris and chapatis in one shot, or are you gonna spread it out over the victim’s life?

And most importantly, does “life-long supply” covertly refer to the fact that someone may drop dead on eating even one chapati/puri? Just making sure, dude!


atrakasya's picture

LL- dandiya

Yes, i did, once.
Towards the end of the evening, I had to run to the college hospital - needed 3 stitches on my chin. Of course, I came back and completed the dance Smiling

But till today I have to be careful when I shave Sad

(Okay, that chin-cut wasn’t because of the dandiya exactly, but hell - it happened on the same evening. So, I may be excused for thinking that dandiya is unlucky for me)

But from any guy’s perspective, a dandiya is cool, cause all the gals get fully decked up for it, and its an utter feast for the eyes.

BTW - if you ever throw a belan at IW’s head, I can guarantee you that the belan will split into a thousand pieces, without any damage to IW’s head.
So, be sure to use a low-cost disposable belan.

(Statutory Warning - do not try this at home)


atrakasya's picture

lalouve

you don’t know how to play dandiya?? !
How the hell are you gonna learn to hit your bf/potential-hubby accurately on the head with a belan then, hah? What if you miss your aim??
go, run - join some dandiya class pronto!


Atra

i suppose you are right… where do i find dandiya classes now?? I need volunteers, heads on which to throw the belan. IW where is your head??

aside, me think dandiya is a very neat dance. you ever danced/played Atra??


LL, take your pick

LL, why don’t give the belan to me, so that I use it for its intended purpose. Tell me, do you want :
- a fleeting moment of pleasure derived out of hitting someone, or
- life long supply of Puris & Chappatis made by yours truly

Choice is yours to make.


yummyyy purris

me say purriii, but you gotta make the subzi tht goes with it too. and if it’s no good, you’ll get the ‘belan’! Beat Up


Unknown Territory..

Now this is unknown territory for me. I have gotten so much used to rejections, insults & un-requited love that I honestly don’t know what to say, or what to do next !! I will first retreat to my comforting bachelor pad & try to come to terms with this new situation.


A poem for IW

well iw, i dedicate this old poem from Sullu times, to you:

Ro-ma(n)t I(c) w


Thanx Asuph..

Why do i feel as if this poem was written just for me & me only ? Each n every word of it makes sense. Woe is me !! Thanx mate for spelling out my misery. I couldn’t have done it any better Big Grin

Atra,
Considering that you are the devil’s advocate err I mean a well wisher of LL, I need to take each n every advise of yours with generous doses of salt.


IW!!!!!!!

so yes, there are no written words from here on, but implying that your mashooka is devil isn’t the best way to go forward, IMHO.

your bland well-wisher,
asuph


atrakasya's picture

the self and the other

Also, I think most of us spend a lot more thought on what they want from a partner and what they want in a partner, and how their partner should be - than on their own selves.
As per that old joke -
“I spent my whole life looking for the perfect girl. But when I found her, it turned out that she was looking for the perfect man”


Captain Nemo's picture

atra

“I spent my whole life looking for the perfect girl. But when I found her, it turned out that she was looking for the perfect man”

Check this out :Hope springs eternal


for HC

“Marriage is probably one of the most seriously challenged desi establishments today suffering from a sub optimal mashup of the occidental and oriental world views of getting into and surviving life long relationships.”

HC,

Interesting write-up…but I think Indian marriages are also facing their share of challenges/problems.

After all, with all the “dynamics” changing..relationships are more complicated, no matter which cultural background/nationality/race one may belong to..especially with women being more selective/independent/empowered- there are power shifts which occur and to be expected..and how an “individual man” deals with it- is at the core..and many older and younger men-seem to be doing the best they can..in their own ways.

But the paradox here is…inspite of the complexities..relationships which survive and even thrive still seem to include:

1) Being lucky to find someone..who is attractive/likeable and compatible at least on some level..(whether one finds a life partner on their own or through someone else arranges for it!) Sometimes it is a “magical connection” which cannot be explained…and sometimes…one learns to love the partner- for better or worse.

2) I think sometimes we (men and women) make it more complicated these days for ourselves that it already is! Sometimes we analyze/over analyze one’s motivations.. again, the relationships which make it..usually are those where one partner accepts the other partner for who they are..one may even call it “staying in an abusive relationship”…but, except for physical abuse..how can one really define emotional abuse? After all, both partners come with their own selfish motivations..and self-interests…and all of us have different tolerance levels (I am simply saying- what may seem abusive/taking advantage of someone..is open for interpretation..my tolerance/endurance levels may be much higher than another person and vice versa.)

3) There are no guarantees or magic formulas…in any relationship! Some will survive and others will not- no matter what/or what methods are used..while dating/or after being married.

Maria


chetiyaar's picture

analyze/over analyze

I think that kind of summarizes it Maria !!

Its almost to the point of exhausting ! and the sole intention of analyse / over analyze seems to be to break it ..


atrakasya's picture

Dating Dandiya

I tell you, the best way to find a mate is to have dating-dandiyas. Desis need to get into dating-dandiyas fast.

When you dance a dandiya, you come to know many things - like, if he/she has good physical stamina, good taste in clothes, whether he/she can “move” well (which can be extrapolated to other physical things), and whether the person is considerate when you do awkward stuff, whether the person respects tradition, how the person interacts with other pretty/handsome gals/guys, blah, blah, blah.
I tell ya, some of these old customs had a lot of things (if not all) figured out - one up on that speed-dating thingy Smiling
And BTW, the institution of marriage is not as challenged in India, as it is in the west. We’re getting there (at least the urbanites), but its still a long way to go.


what's this dandiya story!

couldnt you have told me about the dandiya part before!!now i dont know how to play/dance tht! grrr!